With the Captains suffering casualties and heavy injuries on their side, all hope seemed to be lost... until Shinji Hirako appeared, along with the rest of the former Shinigami. Though the aid of the Vizards certainly helped to draw the battle in their favor, it seemed Aizen's power alone proved too much for them.
Post by Rebel Raven on Dec 5, 2009 17:24:14 GMT -5
Okay, I think it's about time for soe fresh eyes to see this app.
The problems Kyra has with your app stands as far as the last post goes.
I would alter the actual definition of the ability... maybe get rid of the 'magnetic' factor all together and just come up with something that revolves around the shielding factor.
Unfortunately I've caught a few things Kyra has not which has me here, now.
It is able to withstand any attacks from lower-tier fighters, stand up against same-tier attacks (albeit this is where the type advantages has the biggest effect), and even some weak attacks from a tier one level higher than his own (although it requires his full power, or close to it, to withstand such an attack, and usually only when it has a type advantage against the opponent's attack).
Tell me how this won't be abused to fight people of lower tier? I mean this guy can defeat ANY ATTACK from someone of lower tier.
It can be a hassel for people of the same tier. If they defeat it, there's nothing in the description to point out that he can't just throw another shield up, and continue defending himself, but the way yo word it, a person of the same tier will be hard pressed to defeat it.
Hell, this ability is so powerful he can fight above tier and defeat some of the "weaker" abilities of a person above tier.
Just who is going to decide what abilities are "weaker?" Does "weaker" mean any non-released form's attack? You don't say.
The notion of him fighting someone above his tier is a problem in itself. People are stronger for a reason.
Aside from water there's no apparent weakness to this ability. As long as he never fights someone who's of the water element, then he's golden, pretty much.
Looking at your Bankai, the "sheath in the shield." That leads me to believe that this person has a physical shield that's a part of the Zanpakuto. 'mma have to say NO.
Shield+ Sword= Dual wielded Zanpakuto.
The weapons need not be identical to be dual wielded, and shields can easily be used as a weapon, nevermind abused in themselves blocking attacks while simultaniously assaulting.
It is able to completely block any attack from a lower-tier, any attack from the same-tier as his, and it can withstand an attack from one tier above him (although if they have the type advantage, the shield is likely to break).
I gotta say, I'm really dissapointed. You've been here a while. You should know better than to word powers like that. This power is denied.
I think I'm truly at a disadvantage here. I'm having to meet the expectations of two different Admins/Mods, which means more changing of my character and more distorting of the picture I originally had for him.
Ok, I edited it around and re-worded a lot of things in order to please you. I reworded the tier stuff. But like you said, people are stronger for a reason. I don't see why I should be limiting my character for people weaker than him, as you just said that one needs to limit one's characters so they don't exceed their tier and start laying a beatdown on someone supposedly stronger than them. But on that note, I can't just sit here and allow my character to be slaughtered by anyone slightly more powerful than him. Like how Chad was able to hold his own against powerful Arrancar, I'd like for my character to have some chance for surviving encounters with stronger-leveled characters. And surely you can't expect me to RP against people of the exact tier of my character for every topic of his, can you?
I'm finding that one of my main problems is that I'm not relaying every little detail of my characters, which you mods seem to like. I think I gave the impression of his shield just sitting there after he swings his sword, like something from a star wars battle. No. I edited that detail in.
But what I need you to understand is that the shield is truly his only real attack. I can't just walk into a topic and have him throw it up, and just have my opponent snap their fingers and break it. That won't work. It needs to be able to be fought with, like Ichigo's getsuga, or byakuya's flowers. I can understand that you don't want me throwing up some uber-powered shield that no one can break, but I need you to understand that I can't have my character throwing up some weak piece of crap anyone can break, with little to no use of even being thrown up in the first place.
And if you're inquiring about the exploding sword, well, for obvious reasons he can't just keep using that. Like I said, he needs to be able to at least stand up to some strong opponents, which means the blasts do more damage to him than them. And even if I find someone on his exact same tier, it'll still hurt him just as much as them. Its more akin to Renji's attack where he slices the opponent with the broken fragments of his sword, or byakuya's attack where he forms all his flowers into one strike with some fancy wings. Its almost a double-edged sword, and needs to be used and viewed as such.
Post by Shinigami Kyra on Dec 16, 2009 20:20:50 GMT -5
I asked Raven to review the application because the entire Magnetic theme was confusing me. I couldn't understand it fully due to the way it was written. That is why I was asking you to remove the aspects of it; not only that, but it's true that you really don't have any sort of limitation. Not only that, but I was also attempting to organize the board in general, as we are the only two available moderators now, and I had a passing in the family. As such, don't feel as though you've been singled out to be reviewed by two moderators. This is simply one of the few times Raven has posted in one of mine; I double check her applications whenever she asks.
We're not saying 'be weak,' but we're saying that everyone should have a change in battle. Having attacks that completely nullify anything would be a very hard ability to get passed, even if it's for 'any' attack from someone of a lesser tier level.
Secondly; you shouldn't be creating a character just for the sake of fighting. I do not think that is the reason most people join this board, it is simply to create a story with others; that is pretty much the definition of Role Playing.
The statements you've made in your most recent reply has led me to believe that your posts will pretty much be reduced to Dojo-only. Either that, or just fight topics. Although everyone likes a little action every now and then, that should not be the center point for joining this board; there are plenty of other boards that are action-based only.
Another factor that I did overlook was the dual wielding aspect... or maybe I did bring it up, but forgotten about it. You have a sword and shield. While I can't believe I overlooked such a factor, I normally would not mind a shield, but that shield has an ability, and as the rules state, can be used as a weapon. I believe each time I came back to this application, the picture was what threw me off; I continued to think that the sword and shield were one. That, would be acceptable.
Well, I find it boring to post in topics just to talk. Normally, my characters have deep conversations while fighting, possibly while heavily injured and at the mercy of someone else. Besides, everyone needs a fight character. I've got two other characters who can have personalities
Ok, I get how you don't want the shield to be too strong, but we should find a happy medium. I can understand how annoying it would be to have something completely unbeatable to fight, but I can also understand how annoying it would be to have your attack break over and over with no success. Happy medium, no?
I think I need some further review and in-depth complaining about the "dual-wielding" aspect of my bankai. Personally, I don't see how its a dual-wield, just an extension of the shikai. After all, in the shikai, he can slash with the sword, and make a big shield. The only bankai difference is that he can make a bigger slash with the sword, specifically an exploding slash.
Post by Shinigami Kyra on Dec 16, 2009 22:05:12 GMT -5
There are two physical weapons that are not connected. Both have abilities, both can be a means of attack and/or defense. Did you read the Guide? I think it mentions stuff like this in there. In the Shikai, he 'produces' a shield with his reiatsu. This shield is a physical representation. He has two separate forms of utility; a shield, and a sword.
I think that's the most detailed description I can pretty much give you right there.
In accordance to the Shield; I'll leave the power aspect to Raven on this.
Post by Rebel Raven on Dec 16, 2009 23:09:43 GMT -5
I don't suppose you know how deadly a shield can be when used as a weapon, huh? Ramming the edge of the shield into the throat, side of the head, etc. Basically it's a reinforced forearm smash.
Then there's it's use as a shield. Block an attack, tie up the weapon so they can't defend, then attack with your weapon.
Can you imagine how that leads to cries of godmodding from both sides?
If you want a demonstration of a shield's use, Spike TV's website has full episodes of Deadliest Warrior. I recommend watching Spartan Vs Ninja, and/or Viking Vs Samurai.
Now, some shields have the flaws in that it can be broken, or made hard to use. Back in the day the latter was achieved by piercing the shield with a spear with a broad head which made the shield hard as heck to use coz of the spear sticking out of it throwing off the balance, and weight.
Breaking a shield was just a matter of brute force.
Now, being a Zanpakuto the shield is already made more durable. On top of that, the shield is -metal-, and not just metal, Zapakuto metal. It's damn near unbreakable as it is.
On top of that, you've made it nigh in-fucking-vulnerable to attacks made from people lower, and people of the same tier. Even someone STRONGER will have to beat their way through the shield. Congradulations, your character fights above tier which is against the rules.
I understand it's not a full body shield on all the time, but with the ways it can be abused it may as well be.
I ask you, how is this fair? Can you posibly justify using this in battle against another player? One look at your application, and they'll say "Fuck it! I can't hurt the guy."
Yeah, that's right. I don't trust you with a character that has powers more fitting for an event character.
I understand your goal, but it's not possible on this board.
If you do it, someone else will want to. We'll have to fight them over it, and, well, you've seen how that goes.
So we cannot give in on this. A Zanpakuto sword with a zanpakuto shield is dual wielding.
Did you read my shikai where it says the sword has to be in the same position and stance it was in when he ejected the shield from it? I do believe I said I carried this over to the bankai. If not, then my mistake. But I did/was planning to.
Yes, when he uses the shield, it has the same limits as the shikai one. He can't move or else the shield will break, and I believe I stated that he can't use the two weapons at once, and more than likely he'll be a good ways away from the opponent at the time of use, which I also think I explained in the shikai. So, the sword would be just a little useless while the shields up.
Need I say that the physical shield is about the size of the forearm? Not exactly the ideal thing to be throwing up when being directly attacked.
Post by Rebel Raven on Dec 17, 2009 22:51:40 GMT -5
The sword is just like his shikai sword, being entirely blue, but when bankai is initiated it is placed in the sheath in the shield (which is also blue). He then draws it to activated the bankai.
The sword is no different from its shikai counterpart, but the shield is a new addition. It is about the size of Raion's forearm, being rather small and almost redundant to be used as a shield.
Still dualwielding. He has a physical zanpakuto shield along with the sword. The shield has powers, it's as strong as a zanpakuto, etc.
It's not going to be allowed. Ever. EVER.
It is able to completely block any attack from a lower-tier, hold its own against attack from the same-tier as his, and, when combined with his hollow mask, can possibly withstand an attack from a tier above him.
That's why. Not only is this application review 2 pages long, and far, far, far longer than we'd ever allow for someone to have multiple zanpakuto (Basically we'd have to say an app is approved on the first review), the fact that you wrote it in this fashion completely DEMOLISHED any shot in hell in having 2 zanpakuto.
Yeah, people of lower tiers are not likely to win, but they'd still have a shot in hell at even hurting someone a tier up (and possibly winning.) as opposed to this.
There's no telling how you'll handle this sort of strength, and because of that, I don't trust you with it, and you're not getting it.
Further, this character is made just for fighting by your own admittance.
Lemme ask you this. If you were any of your characters, and were faced against a guy like this would you wanna fight'em? DO you think you could win against your own character with an existing character of yours if they were on the same tier or below?
And, AGAIN, if we allowed you to have this, someone else would demand it. That's why our standards for allowing multiple zanpakuto are absurdly, stupidly high.
You seem focused entirely on your shikai.
Lets look at it then.
There's still the fact that it can work against a person of a higher tier. "Hold it's own" is not exactly a good term to use vs someone of the same tier. It's too vague. Being able to handle attacks from a tier higher with any reliability means there's little reason it should be very vulnerable against people of lower tiers, or the same tier.
The weaknesses aren't enough to justify this.
The shield needs time to "mature", however, as it does not just become a shield the second it leaves his blade. As it gains distance from Raion, it has time to fully "grow" into its "full size and strength."
How long does it take to mature? What are the vulnerabilities while it matures?
The shield is also not self-sustaining.
Okay, it's not self sustaining. How long can it last?
Raion cannot simply fire off a shield to stop an attack and then flash step behind someone and slash them. Like with a normal shield, you can't just set it down and expect it to hold up to someone hitting it while you walk around. He must keep his "battle stance" he was in when he fired it off, meaning his sword must stay extended towards the center of the shield, and the point he is shielding against. The shield also cannot be moved, so if Raion fires one off and completely misses the attack to shield against, he's screwed.
This doesn't make sense. The shield appears, why doesn't it just disappear?
Once he has the attack blocked, why can't he just drop the shield and attack? The shield is made of energy/fire.
Understand this. If we allow someone with an absurdly powerful ability it reflects poorly on the staff, IMO. It makes us look like we allow godmodding.